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	<title>The Avocado Jungle &#187; George W. Bush</title>
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	<description>truth in understanding</description>
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		<title>Wish I Could Have a Presidential Vacation Like W.</title>
		<link>http://avocadojungle.com/2009/06/admin/wish-i-could-have-a-presidential-vacation-like-w</link>
		<comments>http://avocadojungle.com/2009/06/admin/wish-i-could-have-a-presidential-vacation-like-w#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:29:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>David P. Kronmiller</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Blogs]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[George W. Bush]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[So former President George W. Bush broke his silence and opened up a quick line of criticism on President Obama by waving the super villain in Gitmo flag and the usual GOP line of small, hands off government works best. It was this stab at the economic policies of Obama's that reminded me of how little President George W. Bush did during his tenure as Commander in Chief when it came to domestic policy and it also reminded me of his holding the record for most time on vacation by a sitting president.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So former President George W. Bush broke his silence and opened up a quick line of criticism on President Obama by waving the super villain in Gitmo flag and the usual GOP line of small, hands off government works best. It was this stab at the economic policies of Obama&#8217;s that reminded me of how little President George W. Bush did during his tenure as Commander in Chief when it came to domestic policy and it also reminded me of his holding the record for most time on vacation by a sitting president.</p>
<p>I think W. took the small government Republican line too seriously and perhaps thought the role of the President was to just wage war.</p>
<p>According to a<a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/01/16/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry4728085.shtml"> CBS article</a> from January 16th of this year former President George W. Bush spent 487 days at camp David and 490 days at his ranch in Crawford. That means he spent more than one year of his 8 year presidency at Crawford and just three days less time at Camp David. That&#8217;s a lot of vacation time. That means he only really worked about 6 years (felt longer too me). Folks get fired from companies for taking excessive vacations normally but the nation kind of looked the other way &#8211; what with the wars and sending Gitmo Detainees to <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/18/bush-breaks-silence-goes_n_217271.html">rehabilitation camps</a> which gave the illusion that Bush was busy.</p>
<p>I understand the concept of wanting small government but I think our current economic crisis, jobs being shipped overseas, and the poor handling of natural disasters all point decidedly towards W. being less than effective as President. Or maybe the Republicans really think this is okay &#8211; that the President&#8217;s job is simply to do nothing for 8 years because the magical market corrects a failing infrastructure or corporate-Maddoff-like greed.</p>
<p>I think it would be best if W. just stayed retired, enjoyed his new home in Texas, and built his Presidential Library filled with wonderful vacation photos of his time as President.</p>
<p>The man must have some pretty thick photo albums.</p>
<p>Sources:<br />
<a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/18/bush-breaks-silence-goes_n_217271.html">Bush Breaks Silence, Goes After Obama In Speech</a> &#8211; Huffington Post</p>
<p><a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/01/16/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry4728085.shtml">487 Days At Camp David For Bush</a> &#8211; CBS News</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Was it Torture, Fraternity Hazing or Just Right?</title>
		<link>http://avocadojungle.com/2009/04/smartin/was-it-torture-fraternity-hazing-or-just-right</link>
		<comments>http://avocadojungle.com/2009/04/smartin/was-it-torture-fraternity-hazing-or-just-right#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 20:00:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Scott Martin</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Blogs]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Barack Obama]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[George W. Bush]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[terrorism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[THEME: Torture]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[torture]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Last week, in response to litigation filed by the ACLU, the Obama administration released four top secret memos used by the Bush administration in discussing interrogation techniques approved for use by the CIA on high-level detainees at Guantanamo Bay. But what of the acts discussed in these memos? Do the acts constitute torture in the minds of most Americans? In my view, most of them sound like activities that fraternity pledges willingly submit themselves to during Hell Week each and every year in our academies of higher learning.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p class="paragraph_style_1">Last week, in response to litigation filed by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), the Obama administration released <a title="http://documents.nytimes.com/justice-department-memos-on-interrogation-techniques#p=1" href="http://documents.nytimes.com/justice-department-memos-on-interrogation-techniques#p=1">four top secret memos</a> used by the Bush administration in discussing interrogation techniques approved for use by the CIA on high-level detainees at Guantanamo Bay. The memos provided the legal framework for the CIA&#8217;s use of waterboarding and other interrogation methods that some say violate US domestic and international law.</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">A breathless op-ed in the <span class="style_2">New York Times</span> <a title="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/19/opinion/19sun1.html?_r=1&amp;hpw" href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/19/opinion/19sun1.html?_r=1&amp;hpw">called for further scrutiny of the Bush administration over the acts discussed in these memos</a>.</p>
<blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">Until Americans and their leaders fully understand the rules the Bush administration concocted to justify such abuses — and who set the rules and who approved them — there is no hope of fixing a profoundly broken system of justice and ensuring that that these acts are never repeated.</p></blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1">But<br />
what of the acts discussed in these memos? Do the acts constitute torture in the minds of most Americans? In my view, most of them sound like activities that fraternity pledges willingly submit themselves to during Hell Week each and every year in our academies of higher learning. I would like for you to decide for yourself.</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1">In the first memo dated August 1, 2002, we learn the following:</p>
<blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1"><span class="style_3">You have asked for this advice in the course of conducting interrogations of Abu Zubaydah. As we understand it, </span><span class="style_4">Zubaydah is one of the highest ranking members of the Al Qaeda terrorist organization</span><span class="style_3">&#8230;<br />
</span></p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1"><span class="style_3">Zubaydah<br />
is currently being held by the United States. The interrogation team is certain that he has additional information that he refuses to divulge.</span><span class="style_4">Specifically, he is withholding information regarding terrorist networks in the<br />
United States or in Saudi Arabia and information regarding plans to conduct attacks within the United States or against our interests overseas</span><span class="style_3">. Zubaydah has become</span><span class="style_4"> accustomed to a certain level of treatment</span><span class="style_3"> and displays no signs of willingness to disclose further information.</span></p></blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1">In other words, the terrorist had become accustomed to the prayer mats, the Quran reading time, the Muslim chefs preparing three squares a day and the five prayer breaks each day that made Club Gitmo a favorite vacation spot for terrorists in the first place.</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_2">Moreover, your intelligence indicates that there is currently a level of &#8220;chatter&#8221; equal to that which preceded the September 11 attacks. In light of the information you&#8230; wish to move the interrogations into what you have described as an &#8220;increased pressure phase.&#8217;&#8221;</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_2">
<p class="paragraph_style_2">As part of this increased pressure phase, Zubaydah will have contact only with a new interrogation specialist, who he has not met previously, and the Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape (&#8220;SERE&#8221;) training psychologist who has been involved with the interrogations since they began. This phase will likely last no more than several days but could last up to thirty days. In this phase, <span class="style_5">you would like to employ ten techniques that you believe will dislocate his expectations regarding the treatment he believes he will receive and encourage him to disclose the crucial information mentioned above</span>.</p></blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_2">
<p class="paragraph_style_1">I think most of us can agree that this seems reasonable so far. The terrorist likely knows of future attacks and the interrogators wish to trick him into believing that he may face actual torture if he doesn&#8217;t cooperate. Unfortunately, thanks to the release of these memos, future terrorists now know that we won&#8217;t ever actually do so. Let&#8217;s look at the ten techniques noted in the first memo:</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1"><span class="style_5">1) The Attention Grasp</span> (It sounds more sinister if you say it in a hushed tone.)</p>
<blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">The attention grasp consists of grasping the individual with both hands, one hand on each side of the collar opening, in a controlled and quick motion. In the same motion as the grasp, the individual is drawn toward the interrogator.</p></blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">Compare that to this example of 1950s fraternity hazing techniques:</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1"><a title="http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1551919/" href="http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1551919/">The Attention Grasp: Torture, Fraternity Hazing or Just Right</a></p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">(<a title="http://www.polldaddy.com/" href="http://www.polldaddy.com/"> online polls</a>)</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1"><span class="style_5">2) Walling</span></p>
<blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">For wailing <span class="style_5">a flexible false wall</span> will be constructed. The individual is placed with his heels touching the wall. The interrogator pulls the individual forward and then quickly and firmly pushes the individual into the wall. It is the individual&#8217;s shoulder blades that hit the wall. During this motion, the head and neck are supported with a rolled hood or towel that provides a c-collar effect to help prevent whiplash. To further reduce the probability of injury, the individual is allowed to rebound from the flexible wall. You have orally informed us that <span class="style_5">the false wall is in part constructed to create a loud sound when the individual hits it, which further shock or surprise in the individual. In part, the idea is to create a sound that will make the impact seem far worse than it is</span> and that will be far worse than any injury that might result from the action.</p></blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1">A little push into a collapsible wall and a loud noise? I&#8217;m not even going to bother finding more butt-paddling to compare this one to.</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1"><a title="http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1551946/" href="http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1551946/">Walling: Torture, Fraternity Hazing or Just Right?</a></p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">(<a title="http://www.polldaddy.com/" href="http://www.polldaddy.com/"> online polls</a>)</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1"><span class="style_5">3) The Facial Hold</span></p>
<blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">The facial hold is used to hold the head immobile. One open palm is placed on either side of the individual&#8217;s face. The fingertips are kept well away from the individual&#8217;s eyes.</p></blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">Do I really need to ask?</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1"><a title="http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1551957/" href="http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1551957/">The Facial Hold: Torture, Fraternity Hazing, Just Right or How you place your hands when going in for a kiss?</a></p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">(<a title="http://www.polldaddy.com/" href="http://www.polldaddy.com/"> polls</a>)</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1"><span class="style_5">4) The Insult Slap</span> (May be used in conjunction with the prepare-to-kiss move.)</p>
<blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">With the facial slap or insult slap, the interrogator slaps the individual&#8217;s face with fingers slightly spread. The hand makes contact with the area directly between the tip of the individual&#8217;s chin and the bottom of the corresponding earlobe. The interrogator invades the individual&#8217;s personal space. The goal of the facial slap <span class="style_5">is not to inflict physical pain that is severe or lasting, instead, the<br />
purpose of the facial slap is to induce shock, surprise, and or humiliation</span>.</p></blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1">I hear the usual reaction is, &#8220;Allah-damn it! I thought he was going to French-kiss me, but instead he French-slapped me.&#8221;</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1"><a title="http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1551983/" href="http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1551983/">The Insult Slap: Torture, Fraternity Hazing, Just Right or Can we get to some real torture?</a></p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">(<a title="http://www.polldaddy.com/" href="http://www.polldaddy.com/"> polls</a>)</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1"><span class="style_5">5) Cramped Confinement</span></p>
<blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">Cramped confinement involves the placement of the individual in a confined space, the dimensions of which restrict the individual&#8217;s movement. The confined space is usually dark. The duration of confinement varies based upon the size of the container. For the larger confined space, the individual can stand up or sit down; the smaller space is large enough for the subject to sit down. Confinement in the larger space can last up to eighteen hours; for the smaller space, confinement lasts for no more than two hours.</p></blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1">In other words, treating terrorists like we treat poorly behaving prisoners. I see now why the Times is so sure this is all torture. It sounds almost as bad as <a title="http://www.units.muohio.edu/psybersite/groups/stories.shtml" href="http://www.units.muohio.edu/psybersite/groups/stories.shtml">this more recent fraternity hazing technique</a>:</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">Two freshmen at Ohio State University were brought to the “dungeon” of their prospective fraternity house after breaking the rule requiring all pledges to crawl into the dining area prior to Hell Week meals. Once locked in the house storage closet, they were given only salty foods to eat for nearly two days. Nothing was provided for drinking purposes except a pair of plastic cups in which they could catch their own urine (Described in Cialdini, 1985).</p></blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1"><a title="http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1552002/" href="http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1552002/">Cramped Confinement: Torture, Fraternity Hazing, Just Right or Routine Police Tactic?</a></p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">(<a title="http://www.polldaddy.com/" href="http://www.polldaddy.com/"> online polls</a>)</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1">6) <span class="style_5">Wall Standing</span></p>
<blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">Wall standing is used to induce muscle fatigue. The individual stands about four to five feet from a wall, with his feet spread approximately to shoulder width. His arms are stretched out in front of him, with his fingers resting on the wall. His fingers support all of his body weight. The individual is not permitted to move or reposition his hands or feet.</p></blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">Stretching exercises, anyone?</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1"><a title="http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1552025/" href="http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1552025/">Wall Standing: Torture, Fraternity Hazing, Just Right or Health Club Workout?</a></p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">(<a title="http://www.polldaddy.com/" href="http://www.polldaddy.com/"> online polls</a>)</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_3" style="text-indent: -15px;"><span class="Bullet" style="font-size: 14px; position: relative; top: 0px;">7) </span><span class="style_5">Stress Positions</span></p>
<blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1" style="text-align: justify;">(T)hese positions are not designed to produce the pain associated with contortions or twisting of the body. Rather, somewhat like walling, they are designed to produce the physical discomfort associated with muscle fatigue. Two particular stress positions are likely to be used on Zubaydah:</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1" style="text-align: justify;">1) sitting on the floor with legs extended straight out in front of fhim with his arms raised above his head; and</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1" style="text-align: justify;">2)<br />
kneeling on the floor while leaning back at a 45 degree angle. You have also orally informed us that through observing Zubaydah in captivity, <span class="style_5">you have noted that he appears to be quite flexible despite his wound</span>.</p></blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">Good, we wouldn&#8217;t actually want to hurt the poor terrorist, would we? More calisthenics?</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1"><a title="http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1552070/" href="http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1552070/">Stress Positions: Torture, Fraternity Hazing, Just Right or Boring?</a></p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">(<a title="http://www.polldaddy.com/" href="http://www.polldaddy.com/"> online polls</a>)</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1"><span class="style_5">8 ) Sleep Deprivation</span></p>
<blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">Sleep deprivation may be used. You have indicated that your purpose in using this technique is to reduce the individual&#8217;s ability to think on his feet and, through the discomfort associated with lack of sleep; to motivate him to cooperate: The effect of such sleep deprivation will generally remit after one or two nights of uninterrupted sleep. You have informed us that your research has revealed that, in rare instances, some individuals who are already predisposed to psychological problems may experience abnormal reactions to sleep deprivation. Even in those cases, however, reactions abate after the individual is permitted to sleep. <span class="style_5">Moreover, personnel with medical training are available to and will intervene in the unlikely event of an abnormal reaction</span>. You have orally informed us that you would not deprive Zubaydah of sleep for more than eleven days at a time and that you have previously kept him awake for 72 hours, from which no mental or physical harm resulted.</p></blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1">It seems we get <a title="http://www.university-college.net/articles/fraternity-hazing.php" href="http://www.university-college.net/articles/fraternity-hazing.php">all our good ideas from the Greeks on campus</a>:</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">Drinking bottles of liquor, not sleeping for days, streaking, being chained and drug around campus, fighting, not bathing, and humiliating themselves are all parts of a pledge&#8217;s hazing process.</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1"><a title="http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1552108/" href="http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1552108/">Sleep Deprivation: Torture, Fraternity Hazing or Just Right?</a></p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">(<a title="http://www.polldaddy.com/" href="http://www.polldaddy.com/"> online polls</a>)</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1"><span class="style_5">9) Cramped Confinement Box plus Insect</span></p>
<blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">You would like to place Zubaydah in a cramped confinement box with an insect. You have informed us that he appears to have a fear of insects. In particular, you would like to tell Zubaydah that you intend to place a stinging insect into the box with him. You would, however, place a harmless insect in the box. You have orally informed us you would in fact place a harmless insect<span class="style_5"> such as a caterpillar</span> in the box with him.</p></blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">Caterpillars? Oh my!</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1"><a title="http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1552128/" href="http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1552128/">Cramped Confinement: Torture, Fraternity Hazing, or Just Right ?</a></p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">(<a title="http://www.polldaddy.com/" href="http://www.polldaddy.com/"> online polls</a>)</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1"><span class="style_5">10) Waterboarding</span> (Maniacal, evil laugh here.)</p>
<blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">In this procedure, the individual is bound securely loan inclined bench, which is approximately four feet by seven feet. The individual&#8217;s feet are generally elevated. A cloth is placed over the forehead and eyes. Water is then applied to the cloth in a controlled manner. As this is done, the cloth is lowered until it covers both the nose and mouth. Once the cloth is saturated and completely covers the mouth and nose, air now is slightly restricted for 20 to 40 seconds due to the presence of the cloth.</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">This causes an increase in carbon dioxide level in the individual&#8217;s blood. This increase in the CO2 level stimulates increased effort to breathe. This effort plus the cloth produces the <span class="style_5">perception</span> of &#8220;suffocation and incipient panic,&#8221; i.e., the<span class="style_5"> perception </span>of drowning. The individual does not breathe any water into his lungs.</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1">During those 20 to 40 seconds, water is continuously applied from a height of twelve to twenty four inches. After this period, the cloth is lifted, and the individual is allowed to breathe unimpeded for three or four breaths. The <span class="style_5">sensation of drowning is immediately relieved</span> by the removal of the cloth. The procedure may then be repeated. The water is usually applied from a canteen cup or small watering can with a spout&#8230;</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1">(A) medical expert with SERE experience will be present throughout this phase and that the procedures will be stopped if deemed medically necessary to prevent severe mental or physical harm to Zubaydah.</p></blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">This is the only one that I can see a majority being concerned about. You will be pleased to know that those who go through SERE training voluntarily consent to all of the above methods. The memo states the findings of a person with ten years SERE experience:</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1"><span class="style_3"><br />
</span></p>
<blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1"><span class="style_3">(H)e trained </span><span class="style_4">10,000 students. Of those students, only two dropped out of the training following the use of these techniques</span><span class="style_3">. Although on rare occasions some students temporarily postponed the remainder of their training and received psychological counseling, those students were able to finish the program without any indication of subsequent abnormal health effects&#8230;</span></p></blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1">Another trainer noted the following:</p>
<blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1"><span class="style_3">He informed you that there was one person who did not complete the training. That person experienced an adverse mental health reaction that </span><span class="style_4">lasted only two hours</span><span class="style_3">. After those two hours, the individual&#8217;s symptoms spontaneously dissipated without requiring treatment or counseling and no other symptoms were ever reported by this individual.</span></p></blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1"><a title="http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1552175/" href="http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1552175/">Waterboarding: Torture, Fraternity Hazing or Just Right?</a></p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">(<a title="http://www.polldaddy.com/" href="http://www.polldaddy.com/"> polls</a>)</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1">The second memo included a couple new techniques:</p>
<blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1"><span class="style_5">1) Dietary Manipulation</span>.<br />
This technique involves the substitution of commercial liquid meal replacements for normal food, presenting detainees with a bland, unappetizing, but nutritionally complete diet.</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">2) <span class="style_5">Nudity</span>.<br />
This technique is used to cause psychological discomfort, particularly if a detainee, for cultural or other reasons,is especially modest. When the technique is employed, clothing can be provided as an instant reward for cooperation. During and between interrogation sessions, a detainee may be kept nude.</p></blockquote>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1"><a title="http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1552189/" href="http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1552189/">Diet Manipulation and Nudity: Torture, Fraternity Hazing or Just Right?</a></p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">(<a title="http://www.polldaddy.com/" href="http://www.polldaddy.com/"> online polls</a>)</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1">The <span class="style_2">New York Times</span>, the ACLU and the liberal media and academic elites now know our interrogation techniques, and they are hysterical. Al Qaeda now knows our interrogation techniques, and they are laughing at us.</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">This issue doesn&#8217;t cleave neatly at the center of the left-right political spectrum. Heck, left-wing authoritarian governments spent most of the 20th century perfecting methods of torture. But in America today, liberals tend to object, strenuously, to any tactic that even hurts a prisoners feelings, as shown by the fact that some readers have called &#8220;The Attention Grasp&#8221; torture.</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1">Conservatives tend to view protecting the citizens of the United States as a larger and more important objective of the federal government than prisoner comfort.</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1">Shouldn&#8217;t there be a middle way? Can&#8217;t we recognize that, yes, we do have a moral obligation to treat our prisoners as humanely as possible, and yes, a primary duty of our government is to protect the safety of its citizens.</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">I believe we can. I believe reasonable people can agree on these things, and support a policy that never puts a prisoner through anything that the person conducting the interrogation has not gone through himself. A policy in which all but the most high-level subjects are never subjected to any of the aforementioned questioning tactics, but one which allows reasonable tactics to be used on people who definitely have information that will save American lives and who will not divulge said information under other circumstances. Is taking any possible<br />
action officially off the table really an intelligent way to handle those who wish to do harm to Americans?</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1">Let&#8217;s not forget, these tactics <a title="http://patriotroom.com/article/cia-waterboarding-prevented-9-11-style-attack-on-los-angeles" href="http://patriotroom.com/article/cia-waterboarding-prevented-9-11-style-attack-on-los-angeles">unquestionably prevented further attacks</a> and <a title="http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2009/04/exclusive-text-what-waterboarding.html" href="http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2009/04/exclusive-text-what-waterboarding.html">saved American lives</a>. For this we should all be thankful.</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">Most Americans won&#8217;t read the reports for themselves. They will read the paper, watch the MSM and conclude that we were doing Jack Bauer. In my opinion, we were mostly doing Jack, and thank God we did.</p>
<p class="paragraph_style_1">
<p class="paragraph_style_1" style="padding-bottom: 0pt;">What say you?</p>
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		<title>The Iraq and Afghanistan Wars</title>
		<link>http://avocadojungle.com/2009/04/bpicket/the-iraq-and-afghanistan-wars</link>
		<comments>http://avocadojungle.com/2009/04/bpicket/the-iraq-and-afghanistan-wars#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 19:00:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Bronson Picket</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Audio]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Blogs]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[audio podcast]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Afghanistan]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[George W. Bush]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Iraq]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Saddam Hussein]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[the left]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[the right]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[THEME: Iraq and Afghanistan Wars]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[war]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[As is the case with every Avocado Jungle topic, this week’s topic begins with the familiar four words, “Searching for the truth...”. Considering the given subject includes the Iraq War, those four words are particularly significant, because, the truth is readily available for those willing to listen. However, for many, the truth is no match for an oft-repeated lie. Despite this sad and lazy irony, I will continue to fight this uphill battle against those willing to ignore facts in favor of their hearts. <i>Podcast available.</i>]]></description>
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<p><em>Listen to this post as a <a href="http://avocadojungle.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/090424_blog_picket_readby_day.mp3">podcast</a>.</em></p>
<p style="padding-top: 0pt;">As is the case with every Avocado Jungle topic, this week’s topic begins with the familiar four words, “Searching for the truth&#8230;”. Considering the given subject includes the Iraq War, those four words are particularly significant, because, the truth is readily available for those willing to listen. However, for many, the truth is no match for an oft-repeated lie. Despite this sad and lazy irony, I will continue to fight this uphill battle against those willing to ignore facts in favor of their hearts beginning with:</p>
<p><span>“Bush Lied, People Died”</span></p>
<p>This popular rallying cry of the Left purported the despicable notion that President George W. Bush lied when he said he believed Saddam Hussein was in possession of weapons of mass destruction (WMD); a major impetus for the American war in Iraq.  The problem with this statement is that it is a lie. Here are the facts:</p>
<p>•Almost every Western intelligence agency believed Hussein had WMD</p>
<p>•Hussein would not allow inspectors full access to make a determination, as was required by UN mandate</p>
<p>•The aforementioned UN mandate came as a result of WMD Hussein had previously used against his own people</p>
<p>•Following the first Gulf War, despite Hussein’s claims to the contrary, large stockpiles of WMD, in addition to an ongoing WMD program, were discovered, following the defection of his son-in-law, Hussein Kamel. It should be noted, this discovery was made after the U.N. had declared Iraq WMD free.</p>
<p>•Hussein had actively pursued a nuclear weapons program, as outlined by Khidhir Hamza in the book “Saddam’s Bombmaker”, which Hamza, was forced to lead, until his escape from Iraq.</p>
<p>•Hussein was the major foreign sponsor of Palestinian terror</p>
<p>Considering the facts, especially the consensus amongst intelligence agencies worldwide that Hussein had WMD, why would President Bush believe otherwise? Because Jon Stewart said so? Now bear in mind, I am not making the case for going to war with Iraq. I believe reasonable people could disagree as to whether we should have. However, it is neither reasonable, nor honorable, to categorically state the president lied about WMD when there was there was so much supporting evidence to the contrary. If one believes he lied, so be it, that is a matter of opinion. However, to say so as an assertion of fact is in itself a a lie, which does nothing for the credibility of the individual or group behind the claim.</p>
<p>Interestingly, for all the heartfelt pleas of the left to “Get out of Iraq now!”, most of the rank and file are virtually silent on this issue right now. Other than the president, what’s changed? We’re still in Iraq&#8230; have things gotten better? Double edged sword, that one, because if things have gotten better, the Left would have to admit some good came from a war they opposed. On the other hand, if things are just as bad now as they were before, there is no excuse for their letting President Obama off the hook for remaining in a country they so vehemently insisted President Bush abandon.</p>
<p>Next lie&#8230; <span>“The idiots on the right think Saddam Hussein attacked the World Trade Center”<br />
</span></p>
<p>I live 12 blocks from where the towers used to stand, and was here on the day we were attacked. I, along with countless others in the neighborhood watched people jumping to their deaths to avoid the flames behind them, and saw the rush of men and women covered in the ashes of the South Tower after it collapsed. I vividly remember the smell of electric and fire charred rubble that permeated the neighborhood for the month that followed. Many people over the last eight years, both on the left and the right, have asked me about that day and NOT ONE of them ever claimed or implied we were attacked by Iraq. Nor have I, in listening to Rush Limbaugh, Dennis Prager, watching Fox News, C-Span, or any other media outlet including conservative opinions, ever heard  such an obviously fatuous statement made or implied by any prominent member of the Right. Yet, the Left continued to promote a straw man that conservative support of the war in Iraq was due to this phony accusation no one ever made. This was made embarrassingly clear during the 2004 presidential election when during a debate, Senator John Kerry made the oh-so-clever observation to President Bush that, we were attacked by Osama Bin Laden, not Saddam Hussein. The eruption of applause from Kerry supporters only put an exclamation point on his ignorance that any serious person on the Right would believe otherwise. The reason the Bush administration acknowledged September 11th in the context of Iraq was to give perspective to the global situation we were in.</p>
<p>•America is under attack by Islamo-fascist terrorists and a mad man in Iraq is in possession of weaponry with which we believe he is willing to arm those terrorists.</p>
<p>I can imagine Senator John Kerry debating with FDR that it wasn’t Hitler who bombed Pearl Harbor, and that we “took our eye off the ball” by fighting Germany and not focusing our efforts on Japan to get Tojo!</p>
<p>Since our invasion of Iraq, were new WMD found? No. Does that mean they were never there? Not necessarily, but without categorical proof they were hidden or moved, I am not going to pretend I know for certain one way or the other, no matter how much I may believe otherwise. There have been many other lies regarding the Iraq War including horrific accusations of “<span>Blood for Oil”, </span>or<span> Bush and Cheney were looking to enrich their oil buddies, </span>or<span> It was a scheme to raise the stock price of Haliburton, </span>or<span> September 11th was an inside job to promote a war in the Middle East</span>, amongst a few grisly others. I can debunk any and all of these disgusting allegations with fact after specific fact, but it won’t make a difference coming from a conservative unless the Left is willing to hear it. As such, I hope I can count on truthful liberals, of which I believe there are many, to speak against these lies when they hear them. No matter your opinion on the war, the onus is upon us both to tell the truth, not as we assume it, but as it is. To be honorable, one is not required to believe our war in Iraq was just, but one is required to be honest in his dissent.</p>
<p style="padding-bottom: 0pt;">Look Right, Look Left, Look Right again, if All Clear, Quick March!</p>
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